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	<title>Comments on: Becoming sons and daughters of God</title>
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	<link>http://radiobeloved.wordpress.com/2008/12/07/becoming-sons-and-daughters-of-god/</link>
	<description>Ad majorem Dei gloriam.</description>
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		<title>By: Neal Davis</title>
		<link>http://radiobeloved.wordpress.com/2008/12/07/becoming-sons-and-daughters-of-god/#comment-69</link>
		<dc:creator>Neal Davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:36:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@ Stephen M. (Ethesis):

Context is our perpetual hobgoblin, isn&#039;t it?  Even when we rigorously hold to it within a text, the zeitgeist, the personality of the author, our own biases slip through our fingers and we find ourselves extrapolating and ignoring what we should not.  This is what, in large part, makes the D&amp;C so valuable as a commentary on earlier scripture, though that too recedes from us.

Well, I suppose I tagged this post &#039;self-deception&#039; for a reason... we succumb to it too easily.  The dual challenge of seriously trying to live a Christian life is to see how far one has come and remember how far one has to go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Stephen M. (Ethesis):</p>
<p>Context is our perpetual hobgoblin, isn&#8217;t it?  Even when we rigorously hold to it within a text, the zeitgeist, the personality of the author, our own biases slip through our fingers and we find ourselves extrapolating and ignoring what we should not.  This is what, in large part, makes the D&amp;C so valuable as a commentary on earlier scripture, though that too recedes from us.</p>
<p>Well, I suppose I tagged this post &#8217;self-deception&#8217; for a reason&#8230; we succumb to it too easily.  The dual challenge of seriously trying to live a Christian life is to see how far one has come and remember how far one has to go.</p>
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		<title>By: Neal Davis</title>
		<link>http://radiobeloved.wordpress.com/2008/12/07/becoming-sons-and-daughters-of-god/#comment-68</link>
		<dc:creator>Neal Davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:29:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Dear Neal,  Thanks so much for the response and the very nicely written article.  Since I am not a Mormon, I won&#039;t comment on the Book of Mormon that may, indeed, say different things.  I would say, however, that Mary, Martha, and Lazarus were friends and followers but not family.  Moreover, isn&#039;t it strange that Jesus in John always addresses his mother as just &quot;Woman.&quot;  Not &quot;Mother behold your son&quot; but &quot;Woman behold your son.&quot;  He seems to be placing his mother at a great distance.  Moreover, I can&#039;t really get around his sayings about poverty so easily as C.S. Lewis does.  Can you imagine a modern minister, when counseling with a person who wishes to join the church, say &quot;Well, you will have to sell everything you have and give the money to the poor!&quot;  I do like your quotation from Barth who here hits the nail on the head.  The Church tends simply to create God (and Jesus) in its image and then fall down and worship what it has created.

Jay</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Neal,  Thanks so much for the response and the very nicely written article.  Since I am not a Mormon, I won&#8217;t comment on the Book of Mormon that may, indeed, say different things.  I would say, however, that Mary, Martha, and Lazarus were friends and followers but not family.  Moreover, isn&#8217;t it strange that Jesus in John always addresses his mother as just &#8220;Woman.&#8221;  Not &#8220;Mother behold your son&#8221; but &#8220;Woman behold your son.&#8221;  He seems to be placing his mother at a great distance.  Moreover, I can&#8217;t really get around his sayings about poverty so easily as C.S. Lewis does.  Can you imagine a modern minister, when counseling with a person who wishes to join the church, say &#8220;Well, you will have to sell everything you have and give the money to the poor!&#8221;  I do like your quotation from Barth who here hits the nail on the head.  The Church tends simply to create God (and Jesus) in its image and then fall down and worship what it has created.</p>
<p>Jay</p>
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		<title>By: Neal Davis</title>
		<link>http://radiobeloved.wordpress.com/2008/12/07/becoming-sons-and-daughters-of-god/#comment-67</link>
		<dc:creator>Neal Davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:29:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://radiobeloved.wordpress.com/?p=205#comment-67</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The following two comments are a correspondence with Dr. Williams:&lt;/i&gt;

Dear Dr. Williams,

I have read with great interest your recent article, &quot;What is Wrong with the Church?&quot; at http://bibleinterp.com/articles/Jay_Church_Essay_Church_1.shtml  Although not a formal student of theology, I have done some writing and a lot of reading on Christian theology and ethics of late.  You raised an interesting question about the creation of a Jesus to serve the institutional needs of a corporate church that coincides well with some recent thoughts I&#039;ve been having on the nature of our relationship to the Godhead or Trinity.  Since reading Karl Barth&#039;s Epistle to the Romans, I&#039;ve been facing the fact that we create a false god with whom we interact, an &#039;avatar&#039;, in your language, that merely validates the basic path that our life has already taken.  In an analogy to the Father of what you wrote of the Son, Barth wrote:
&lt;em&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Our relationship to God is ungodly….  We assume that He needs something:  and so we assume that we are able to arrange our relation to Him as we arrange our other relationships.  …We confound time with eternity.  …Secretly we are ourselves the masters in this relationship.  We are not concerned with God, but with our own requirements, to which God must adjust Himself.  …And so, when we set God upon the throne of the world, we mean by God ourselves.  In &#039;believing&#039; on Him, we justify, enjoy, and adore ourselves.  …Under the banners of humility and emotion we rise in rebellion against God.  We confound time with eternity.  That is our unrighteousness.  …God Himself is not acknowledged as God and what is called &#039;God&#039; is in fact man.  By living to ourselves, we serve the &#039;No-God&#039; (p.44).&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/em&gt;

In response to your essay and considerations of Jesus&#039; practical ethic of Christian action, and in response to your challenge for dialogue, I&#039;ve written my take as a Latter-day Saint student of Jesus&#039; teachings.  Certainly I&#039;ve drawn different conclusions than my Protestant fellows, and indeed than you did, but I hope it may serve as a useful voice in the conversation, and it may be of interest to you.  Thanks for your take as we swim in these deep waters.

Sincerely,
Neal Davis</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The following two comments are a correspondence with Dr. Williams:</i></p>
<p>Dear Dr. Williams,</p>
<p>I have read with great interest your recent article, &#8220;What is Wrong with the Church?&#8221; at <a href="http://bibleinterp.com/articles/Jay_Church_Essay_Church_1.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://bibleinterp.com/articles/Jay_Church_Essay_Church_1.shtml</a>  Although not a formal student of theology, I have done some writing and a lot of reading on Christian theology and ethics of late.  You raised an interesting question about the creation of a Jesus to serve the institutional needs of a corporate church that coincides well with some recent thoughts I&#8217;ve been having on the nature of our relationship to the Godhead or Trinity.  Since reading Karl Barth&#8217;s Epistle to the Romans, I&#8217;ve been facing the fact that we create a false god with whom we interact, an &#8216;avatar&#8217;, in your language, that merely validates the basic path that our life has already taken.  In an analogy to the Father of what you wrote of the Son, Barth wrote:<br />
<em><br />
<blockquote>Our relationship to God is ungodly….  We assume that He needs something:  and so we assume that we are able to arrange our relation to Him as we arrange our other relationships.  …We confound time with eternity.  …Secretly we are ourselves the masters in this relationship.  We are not concerned with God, but with our own requirements, to which God must adjust Himself.  …And so, when we set God upon the throne of the world, we mean by God ourselves.  In &#8216;believing&#8217; on Him, we justify, enjoy, and adore ourselves.  …Under the banners of humility and emotion we rise in rebellion against God.  We confound time with eternity.  That is our unrighteousness.  …God Himself is not acknowledged as God and what is called &#8216;God&#8217; is in fact man.  By living to ourselves, we serve the &#8216;No-God&#8217; (p.44).</p></blockquote>
<p></em></p>
<p>In response to your essay and considerations of Jesus&#8217; practical ethic of Christian action, and in response to your challenge for dialogue, I&#8217;ve written my take as a Latter-day Saint student of Jesus&#8217; teachings.  Certainly I&#8217;ve drawn different conclusions than my Protestant fellows, and indeed than you did, but I hope it may serve as a useful voice in the conversation, and it may be of interest to you.  Thanks for your take as we swim in these deep waters.</p>
<p>Sincerely,<br />
Neal Davis</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen M (Ethesis)</title>
		<link>http://radiobeloved.wordpress.com/2008/12/07/becoming-sons-and-daughters-of-god/#comment-66</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen M (Ethesis)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:20:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;i&gt;Christian scholarship is the Church’s prodigious invention to defend itself against the Bible&lt;/i&gt; while ignoring context is the tool used by those who wish to reject the Bible without scholarship :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Christian scholarship is the Church’s prodigious invention to defend itself against the Bible</i> while ignoring context is the tool used by those who wish to reject the Bible without scholarship <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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